Open advice to Zenist69

• bohiruci

  5 Jan 11, 02:18

  I welcomed Zenist69 to Wisdom Bliss forum , but would like to point out a certain thing

  The inspiration of tai shan lao jun is a wai dao classics but contain relevant truth to Buddhism

  from what you posted , you should be a Vajrayana follower .

  If your Rinpoche did not say a thing , you as follower must not slander a sramana

  The Wai dao classics book are only making up 2% of the Vast Teachings he have given so far , if He is wai dao ,why would he bother to use His Lay teacher Li Ping Nan Tertiary Buddhist notes[flowchart mode] to help elite understand Buddhism .

   

  Sometimes when criticising a Venerable ,we really have to rethink the consequence of those who are new in forum and what repercussion it may holds

   

  Just as Vajrayana buddhism contains several tradition that isnt Buddhist in the first place , but use it to help the nomads to understand Buddhism .Lama Dance is 100% Buddhist originally ? yes or no ?

   

  If you are not happy with the Inspiration words of Tai shan lao jun , Di zi gui ,simply dont listen to it and listen to his talk on Platform sutra in 1984 period and several talk on Wu liang shou jing

   

  About the 1 sutra for 10 years .its pretty controversial .But let me clarify this matter in a neutral point of view

  Focusing a sutra have been the main way in which a student of Buddhism can get to "verify" and reflect his /her self upon in the teachings .If you have the capacity to study other sutra , by all means go ahead

  Six Patriach did not study Lotus Sutra in His Life , but it was Bhikkhu Fa da whose confusion and only venerating and recite the  Lotus Sutra like a parrot that helps Hui Neng to with the "Diamond Sutra " verify Fa Da confusion .

  The Platform sutra explanation is the justifications that Huineng never study other sutra in His life . Cause He is already realised and any sutra is "an accumulation of words and words prajna" which He doesnt need to attach to .

   

  I have been learning and practising Buddhism for 18 years .So take heed of my advice ,study and discuss Buddhism in harmoniously with all other here alike for Law of Karma is never emotional and strike when you realise all you mentioned of Ven Chin Kung is partial truth ,its too late to repent already .

   

  Namo Amitabha

  With the Purest Whitelotus of the heart offering to zenist69,

  Bohiruci

   

   

• bohiruci

  5 Jan 11, 02:28

  As the saying goes ,"rather to disturb the water of a thousand great river than to disturb the mind [break the faith] of a practitioner ."

   

  this means that if a practitioner gives up Buddhism due to your partial truth and decided to go deluded again ,your karma is never light and can be quite heavy which will ripen in this lifetime

   

  Possible outcome of this karma

  1.You cant attain samadhi

  2.Your Guru Teacher cannot guide you fruitfully ,for their mortal life is up

  3.You encountered several obstacles to learnt the Buddhadharma -eg.Wartorn zone, fighting in war

  4.You will be reviled and slander in public

  5.Your attainment is diminished (as a result of fighting woeful relatives and manifestation of criticism of a sramana of Buddhadharma)

  Please repent sincerely and continue harmonious discussion with others in the forum

• Amitayus48

  5 Jan 11, 09:40

  If He is wai dao ,why would he bother to educate Buddhists with 《弥勒��所问�》，�称《�起��殊胜志��》，出自《大�积�》�第��一 �胜志�会 第二�五。A very good literature to read. Tai shan lao jun , Di zi gui are great literature as well to augment the understanding of rebirth and good people, beneficial to the social well beings, and serves to stable & calm your mind. An enlightening sutra to explore as well 《弥勒��所问�》.

  『爾時世尊讚諸�薩。善哉善哉。善男�。善說如是覺悟之法。善發如是廣大誓願。能以如是決定之心。安�其中。一切業障皆悉消滅。無�善根亦當增長。�

  佛告訴彌勒�薩，�如�薩想�得清淨心，消除業障，應當學習本經這六���薩所發的大願。世尊�彌勒�薩說，實在就是�我們講，我們的業障與經上所說，的 確沒有兩樣。我們應當多多讀誦這�三�，常常��，將它變�自己的誓願。這些誓願歸�，就是四弘誓願之「煩惱無邊誓願斷�，這�三�說的皆是煩惱。

  佛講這兩類�失，都是原則。事例太多了，��枚舉，希望我們能舉一�三，�一知�，細細觀察自己到底錯在那�。佛舉例說：

   ã€Žçˆ¾æ™‚有二說法比丘。ã€�當時，有二ä½�出家 人發心講經說法，『多諸親å�‹å��è�žåˆ©é¤Šã€‚ã€�因為è�½ç¶“的人多，也就是法眷屬多，æ“�護供養的人也多了。『æ±�於是人以慳嫉心。ã€�ä½ å°�於這二ä½�法師起了嫉妒心，這是 從慳貪而生的。『妄言誹謗行婬欲事。ã€�你在外惡æ„�的誹謗他，說他破戒，離間è�žæ³•çš„大眾。因為你的破壞，造謠生事，惡æ„�誹謗，『是時法師親å�‹çœ·å±¬ã€‚ç”±æ±�離間 說其é‡�é�Žã€‚皆令疑惑ä¸�生信å�—。ã€�這是將眾生è�žæ³•çš„機緣破壞了，罪é�Žå¾ˆé‡�。

  『彼諸眾生於是法師。無隨順心斷諸善根。�惡�破壞講經的�場與法師，令眾生�法師疑惑而�生信�。我們學佛�從此處細心體會，境界��時，立刻憶念佛在本經的教誨。深知斷一個人的法緣與法身慧命，果報都墮在地�，何�破壞許多人的法緣，如何得了�

   ã€Žæ˜¯æ•…æ±�等由斯惡業。ã€�佛說，因為造此惡 業，其果報，『已於六å��百å�ƒæ­²ä¸­ã€‚生阿鼻地ç�„。ã€�å…­å��百å�ƒæ˜¯å…­ç™¾è�¬ã€‚因為他生嫉妒心，惡æ„�破壞弘法的é�“場，已經在阿鼻地ç�„å�—了六百è�¬å¹´çš„é‡�刑。『餘業未 盡。復於四å��百å�ƒæ­²ä¸­ã€‚生等活地ç�„。ã€�從阿鼻地ç�„å†�轉到等活地ç�„，罪報比較輕一點，å�—罪四百è�¬å¹´ã€‚兩處å�ˆè¨ˆä¸€å�ƒè�¬å¹´ã€‚

   ã€Žé¤˜æ¥­æœªç›¡ã€‚復於二å��百å�ƒæ­²ä¸­ã€‚生黑繩地 ç�„。ã€�黑繩地ç�„的果報比等活地ç�„å�ˆè¦�輕一等，å�—罪兩百è�¬å¹´ã€‚這些地ç�„çš„ç‹€æ³�，諸ä½�讀《地è—�è�©è–©æœ¬é¡˜ç¶“》就很清楚。『餘業未盡。復於六å��百å�ƒæ­²ä¸­ã€‚生燒熱地 ç�„ã€�。這是更輕一點的燒熱地ç�„，罪報六百è�¬å¹´ã€‚別以為å�ªé€ èª¹è¬—說法這麼一點罪，殊ä¸�知須在地ç�„輾轉å�—罪一å�ƒå…«ç™¾è�¬å¹´ã€‚《大般若經》廣說謗法之罪，å�ƒä½›å‡º 世，救之猶難。善ç�¾è«‹èªªè‹¦å ±ï¼Œä½›ç«Ÿä¸�說。若欲說其所å�—之苦，è�žè€…當å��血而死。是知謗法之罪，é�žå�¯è¼•ä¹Ÿã€‚

   ã€Žå¾žå½¼æ­¿å·²é‚„得為人。ã€�å�—完地ç�„罪報，å†� 得人身。『五百世中生盲無目。ã€�「生盲ã€�是生下來眼ç�›å°±çžŽäº†ã€‚這是因é�ŽåŽ»ä¸–所造的罪業，還有五百世的餘報。讀了的確令人寒毛直豎，造作罪業太容易了，å�ƒè�¬ ä¸�能以為自己ä¸�順心ã€�ä¸�滿æ„�，就任æ„�éšœé�“，å�»ä¸�曉得果報之å�¯æ€•ã€‚『以殘業故。在在所生常多蒙éˆ�ã€�。這就是愚癡ã€�é­¯éˆ�，沒有智慧。「生盲無目ã€�是身體上的缺 陷，「蒙éˆ�ã€�是心æ€�æ˜�暗，沒有智慧。

   ã€Žå¿˜å¤±æ­£å¿µï¼Œéšœè¦†å–„根。ç¦�德微少，形容醜 缺，人ä¸�喜見。ã€�由是餘殃苦報，使一般人見了ä¸�會生歡喜心。å�ˆä»¥ã€Žèª¹è¬—輕賤，戲弄欺嫌。ã€�欺負他人ã€�嫌棄他人。『常生邊地，貧窮下劣。喪失財寶，資生艱 難。ã€�以致出生在文化è�½å¾Œçš„地å�€ï¼Œå�—ä¸�到好的教育。他的生活也很困苦。這些經文皆ä¸�難懂，很清楚的æ��繪他在人間的貧窮下賤，å�—盡種種苦難。『ä¸�為眾人尊é‡� 敬愛。ã€�沒有人尊é‡�他，沒有人喜歡他。

   ã€Žå¾žæ­¤æ­¿å·²ã€‚ã€�五百世身為貧賤之人，這是 地ç�„的餘報；離開地ç�„後，還è¦�å�—五百世的苦報。報盡了，『於後末世五百歲中法欲滅時。ã€�末世五百歲中，是指ç�¾åœ¨é€™å€‹æ™‚代，『還於邊地下劣家生。ã€�這比å‰�é�¢ 情æ³�好得太多了。『匱ä¹�飢å‡�，為人誹謗。忘失正念，ä¸�修善法。ã€�餘報的時間實在太長了ï¼�

   ã€Žè¨­æ¬²ä¿®è¡Œï¼Œå¤šè«¸ç•™é›£ã€‚ã€�å�¶çˆ¾é�‡åˆ°ä½›æ³•ï¼Œ 想發心修行，障緣特別多。皆因é�ŽåŽ»éšœç¤™å¾ˆå¤šäººè�žæ³•ï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥ä»–這一世得此餘報。佛說他的餘報有五百世，å�¯è¦‹ä»–障礙人愈多，果報就愈嚴é‡�。『雖暫發起智慧光明。 以業障故尋復還沒。ã€�這六å��ä½�è�©è–©ï¼Œé�ŽåŽ»ç”Ÿä¸­é€ ç¨®ç¨®ç½ªæ¥­ï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥é›–發心出家修é�“，å�»æœ‰è¨±å¤šéšœç¤™ã€‚『æ±�等從彼，五百歲後。是諸業障，爾乃消滅。ã€�。å�¯è¦‹ç½ªéšœæ¶ˆ 滅需è¦�很長的時間，歷å�—許多的苦難。è�©è–©æœ‰æ™ºæ…§ï¼Œæ€Žèƒ½ä¸�怕ï¼�眾生實在愚癡，竟敢造業ï¼�

  �薩乘人的特色是弘法利生，包括出家說法與在 家說法。在家居士�座說法，出家人總是嫌棄他是在家白衣，往往就輕慢在家說法的�薩。這是出家人最容易犯的�失，所以這段經文主�說明出家人。這些�薩在 俱留孫佛時都是出家人。這些��與事實真相，�代人瞭解得太少了，縱然有人說明，大家也�相信��能接�。總�為一出家就比在家人高，這觀念就是罪業，就 是墮�。世尊當年示��佛，就明白顯示，出家人�佛，在家人也�佛。

   ä¸–尊示ç�¾çš„是出家佛，維摩居士示ç�¾çš„是在家佛。文殊ã€�普賢示ç�¾çš„是出家等覺è�©è–©ï¼Œè€Œè³¢è­·ç¤ºç�¾çš„是在家等覺è�©è–©ã€‚出家與在家沒有分別，å�‡åº§è¬›ç¶“是代佛說法。ä¸�敬講經的人，就是ä¸�敬佛ã€�ä¸�敬法，就是輕慢三寶，這是地ç�„罪業。因為我們的觀念錯誤，所以極容易犯戒。

  If you are confused, just contemplate name of Namo Buddha Amitabha from heart and mind, out to the mouth and listen through ears and into the mind and heart. Merry go round this process - this is also the great advice from Master Venerable Kuang Qin.

  Namo Buddha Amitabha

• Zenist69

  5 Jan 11, 10:11

  testing 123

• Zenist69

  5 Jan 11, 10:34

  Wai dao books should not be serve as foundation and entry to Buddhism. Because although certain wai dao teachings seems to be in align with Buddhism, neverthless, its not the same with Buddhism. There are differences between Confucius teachings, Daoism, and Buddhism. Therefore, to use wai dao books such as confucius book or daoism book as entry and foundation to Buddhism is wrong.

  As for study only one sutra for ten years, thats wrong teaching too. 'cause some people can handle more than one sutra in ten years. Jing Kong Dharma Master didn't take them into consideration. His message is for all people. He didn't take into consideration, some people who are capable, could handle more sutra, and open up more wisdom for them. Ten years study only one sutra might cause people to lose interest in Buddhism. So it is a dangerous message of his.

  There are some dangerous messages in Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings. Thats why I voice out my concern. I dun noe when would people 'step on those mine', 'tripwire' of his when they listen to his Dharma talk, or read his books and get their 法身慧命 hurt. The best way is to voice out my concern so that people might know, and make their own decision. Instead of me knowing the danger and yet go ahead and keep quiet.

  AMTF

• Dawnfirstlight

  5 Jan 11, 12:58

  My view is, I listen to talks from different masters of different schools (Zen, Pureland etc.). I choose those that suits me. I remember the vow that we used to recite after chanting : 法门无�誓愿学.

  Beginners will become mature Buddhists and they will know which direction to go base on their wisdom and 缘. To me, there is no right or wrong. If one is comfortable with one sutra, so be it. If not, the person will explore more on his own as time goes by. For me, I still prefer 法门无�誓愿学 but concentrate on reciting Amitabha.

• Amitayus48

  5 Jan 11, 13:16

  testing 123 is also wai dao!
  You were very dangerous to many people lest me and Jing Kong Dharma master   法身慧命 is always that permanently tranquility, and could not be hurt Once you are enlightened, these sutras are waste paper. Patriarch Chan Master did not even handle a single sutra. According to Jing Kong Dharma Master once said as well, exploring all others sutra is to help in the contemplation of one sutra, for low to high grade beings, so that they do not fall into contempt of own inherent sutra and also could possibly attained enlightenment as that of Patriarch Hui Neng. Super high grade like Patriarch Hui Neng is extremely scarce and possibly either extinction or hiding to avoid contempt by others. Anyway, my grade is super low so I choose Pureland Amitabha .

  Namo Amitabha

  With the Purest Whitelotus of the heart offering to zenist69.
  With deepest empathy, I wish all attainment in this lifespan.

  Amitayus48

• sinweiy

  5 Jan 11, 14:37

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  My view is, I listen to talks from different masters of different schools (Zen, Pureland etc.). I choose those that suits me. I remember the vow that we used to recite after chanting : 法门无�誓愿学.

  Beginners will become mature Buddhists and they will know which direction to go base on their wisdom and 缘. To me, there is no right or wrong. If one is comfortable with one sutra, so be it. If not, the person will explore more on his own as time goes by. For me, I still prefer 法门无�誓愿学 but concentrate on reciting Amitabha.

   

  ya. there's a point here.

  i attained some and also heard countless of the talks, i find that the talk start from low level slowly to high level and he also see who were the audience listening (and he did clarified in one of the talk). some or most of the time there are new comers who do not have much knowledge of buddhism, sometime chinese/china people, sometime knowledge-based people, sometime scientific people, sometime western thinking people and many range of people. so he know that the talk have to range from this to that to suit those people.   like different medicine for different illness. so new comer like chinese/china/eastern people maybe u bring DiZiGui is more useful and simplier then u use å��善业é�“ç»�. as it's more close 亲切 to them. although he did advocate beginners to use also å��善业é�“ç»�, not that he did not! must listen more to know. not use listen a few and fix on a view. moreover, i never heard/read in the past people studying confucius did any major evil stuff in history.   i quick glance through the wiki article, nothing majority bad about the Philosophy. 

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

  actually at my age i also never practice Di Zi Gui non å��善业é�“ç»� in detail, but i know an entire town did and an entrepreneur in china 胡å°�æž— did. and he applied it to his company and it's doing very well. he do heater for winter season. last time his character not so good, now totally change a new good person. he become modest, treat his employee, friend and family very well,  learn not to take advantage of client, yet his company's profit were very good even in bad economy. i believe the dharma protectors and bodhisattvas helped.  all these are what Buddhism wanted to practice.

  as for 10 years in Infinity Sutra, i think he himself when first study buddhism from Li Bin Nan. the teacher was very strict. He was only allow to study and read one sutra for 5 years. the rest cannot read. all the sutras he read before have to forget. he can only read after the 5 years period is due. after 5 years, the benefit was great, he was more calm and in peace. with that benefit, he told his teacher that he wanted to extend another 5 years! it's as if u formatted the harddisk/brain and start afresh. less affliction, less vexation. all these are what Buddhism wanted to practice. it's the result that count!

  ps: i read and believe from Renchen人乘 buddhism (where AEN is from), late Ven Shen Kai, that Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism(not the folk-believe "taoists") was a Pratyekabuddha. that mean he's a Solitary sage enlightened to natural conditions,12因缘.  in his previous life, he used to meet a Buddha taught to him, but was not able to gain enlightenment. so in the next life, he become an Pratyekabuddha. that's why the taodejing pretty similar with ch'an teachings. so somewhere previously the dharma was transmitted by a Buddha.

   

  /\

   

   

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  5 Jan 11, 15:25

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

   

  ya. there's a point here.

  i attained some and also heard countless of the talks, i find that the talk start from low level slowly to high level and he also see who were the audience listening (and he did clarified in one of the talk). some or most of the time there are new comers who do not have much knowledge of buddhism, sometime chinese/china people, sometime knowledge-based people, sometime scientific people, sometime western thinking people and many range of people. so he know that the talk have to range from this to that to suit those people.   like different medicine for different illness. so new comer like chinese/china/eastern people maybe u bring DiZiGui is more useful and simplier then u use å��善业é�“ç»�. as it's more close 亲切 to them. although he did advocate beginners to use also å��善业é�“ç»�, not that he did not! must listen more to know. not use listen a few and fix on a view. moreover, i never heard/read in the past people studying confucius did any major evil stuff in history.   i quick glance through the wiki article, nothing majority bad about the Philosophy. 

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

  actually at my age i also never practice Di Zi Gui non å��善业é�“ç»� in detail, but i know an entire town did and an entrepreneur in china 胡å°�æž— did. and he applied it to his company and it's doing very well. he do heater for winter season. last time his character not so good, now totally change a new good person. he become modest, treat his employee, friend and family very well,  learn not to take advantage of client, yet his company's profit were very good even in bad economy. i believe the dharma protectors and bodhisattvas helped.  all these are what Buddhism wanted to practice.

  as for 10 years in Infinity Sutra, i think he himself when first study buddhism from Li Bin Nan. the teacher was very strict. He was only allow to study and read one sutra for 5 years. the rest cannot read. all the sutras he read before have to forget. he can only read after the 5 years period is due. after 5 years, the benefit was great, he was more calm and in peace. with that benefit, he told his teacher that he wanted to extend another 5 years! it's as if u formatted the harddisk/brain and start afresh. less affliction, less vexation. all these are what Buddhism wanted to practice. it's the result that count!

  ps: i read and believe from Renchen人乘 buddhism (where AEN is from), late Ven Shen Kai, that Lao Tzu, founder of Taoism(not the folk-believe "taoists") was a Pratyekabuddha. that mean he's a Solitary sage enlightened to natural conditions,12因缘.  in his previous life, he used to meet a Buddha taught to him, but was not able to gain enlightenment. so in the next life, he become an Pratyekabuddha. that's why the taodejing pretty similar with ch'an teachings. so somewhere previously the dharma was transmitted by a Buddha.

   

  /\

   

   

   

  Yeah agree with you. Suddenly I remember the saying 万法归一 (All dharmas are resolved into one). I think it means all dharmas are leading to the same path.

• reborn76

  6 Jan 11, 10:45

  “太上è€�å�›æ„Ÿåº”篇” Inspiration of Tai Shang Lao Jun is indeed a non Buddhist text. I think Ven Chin Kung did ever acknowledge in some of his talks. In Buddhism, we normally classified non Buddhist teaching as 外é�“. It does not imply that it is bad. As it teaches the follower to observe 5 precepts and 10 good practices accompany by meditation. Ultimately, they will ascend to the form and formlessness heaven, believing that they have attained nirvana. However, Buddha has taught that heaven is still within the 6 path of transmigration. A sentient being may make it to the highest heaven but when the merits are exhausted he might fall into evil path. That’s why it is view as incomplete, ä¸�圆满.

  Nichiren, mentioned in The Opening Eye Writing

   

  “Confucius declared that there were no worthies or sages in his country, but that in the land to the west there was one named Buddha who was a sage.⁹ This indicates that non-Buddhist texts should be regarded as a first step toward Buddhist doctrine. Confucius first taught propriety and music¹⁰ so that, when the Buddhist scriptures were brought to China, the concepts of the precepts, meditation, and wisdom¹¹ could be more readily grasped. He taught the ideals of ruler and minister so that the distinction between superior and subordinate could be made clear, he taught the ideal of parenthood so that the importance of filial piety could be appreciated, and he explained the ideal of the teacher so that people might learn to follow.

  The Great Teacher Miao-lo says, “The propagation of Buddhism truly depends on this. First the teachings on propriety and music were set forth, and later the true way was introduced.”¹² T’ien-t’ai states, “In the Golden Light Sutra it is recorded that ‘all the good teachings that exist in the world derive from this sutra. To have a profound knowledge of this world is itself Buddhism.’ ”¹³ In Great Concentration and Insight we read, “I [the Buddha] have dispatched the Three Sages¹⁴ to educate the land of China.” In The Annotations on “Great Concentration and Insight” we read: “The Practice of the Pure Law Sutra states that Bodhisattva Moonlight appeared in that land under the name Yen Hui, Bodhisattva Bright Pure appeared there as Confucius, and Bodhisattva Kashyapa appeared as Lao Tzu. Since the sutra is speaking from the point of view of India, it refers to China as ‘that land.’ ”

   

  Follow by

  And yet the main point of these non-Buddhist teachings constitutes an important means of entry into Buddhism……….. The Nirvana Sutra remarks, “All of the non-Buddhist scriptures and writings in society are themselves Buddhist teachings, not non-Buddhist teachings.”

   

  I think one need to understand the time and season. The non Buddhist teaching such as太上��感应篇 was mean for a guide for the people at a certain season. However when we have the good fortune and affinity to know the complete Buddhist teaching then we need to wholeheartedly embrace and follow the later and respect the former.

   

  Why did Ven Chin Kung encourage people to read it? Perhaps it was used as方便法门 to reach out to certain group of people in order to lead them into to Buddhist teaching.

   

  Gassho

  Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

• Zenist69

  6 Jan 11, 14:30

  
  

   

• Weychin

  6 Jan 11, 15:05

  Hi Zenist69, I follow with interest your posting, however, I am forever lost amongst the translation through google translate. Perhaps you would be kind as to elaborate your accusations against Reverend Jing Kung in english and highlight the articles pertaining to Rev. Jing Kung you find so offensive.

  Perhaps you could elaborate from what position  you are coming from(as a buddhist, "buddhist" or non buddhist) that you find Rev. Jing Kung so offensive, you were initially ever so eager to recommend Di Gui Zi for further reading, then suddenly you list it  as inappropriate.

  Also, are you of chinese descent and with extended family of some prevailing chinese values?

  I'd like to ask did you cursorily or extensively read the article before posting or after?

  Also do you understand that Buddhism is an inclusive belief? Your standpoint bears resemblance to a person of exclusive beliefs, with a certain set of dogmas. Whether that is your sincere point of view, I do not know.  

• Weychin

  6 Jan 11, 15:12

  http://translate.google.com.sg/?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tab=wT#

• Dawnfirstlight

  6 Jan 11, 15:26

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  
  

   

  I suggest that if you don't like Master Chin Kong's talk, you can always listen to other master's talk but don't defame any Ven. I know many people take refuge after listening to his talks, so he is not an ordinary person.  He is someone with great credits because many people take refuge because of him. So, don't discredit yourself by criticizing him. I agree that there are many bogus monks nowadays but Master Chin Kong is definitely not one of them.

  Whether his talk is right or wrong, let the listeners decide. We Buddhists must stay united, don't defame any one of us unless that person is doing harm to Buddhism. I don't see people stay away from Buddhism after listening to his talks, instead many people take 3 refuges after listening to his talks. 

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  6 Jan 11, 15:27

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

• Isis

  6 Jan 11, 17:08

  I think it is good to refrain from anyhow slandering a teacher but it is okay to clear your doubts about him/her. In the process, there maybe something to learn from.

  I think what venerable Chin Kong advise: To study a sutra for 10 year... can be good. Becos' there are people who like to read a lot of sutra and intellectualize alot but they don't spend the effort and time to realize the essence of just one sutra. It is said if one can realize the essence of teachings of one sutra, one will naturally understand the essence of all sutras.

  I think it is also good to read other sutra too. We can gain knowledge from different sources but the most important thing is to realize the teaching. 

  I don't know what is Di Zi Gui but if i'm not wrong, i think it teaches about morality. In Buddhism, Morality is a basic foundation ( Well, sila ( morality ), samadhi and panna are also sign-post in our practice). In my opinion, people of our generation seems to have failed to emphasis on the importance of morailty. I think it could be  good to emulate virtue from the ancient people - something that 'chinese' may find it easily to relate to. - it could be a skillful means by venerable to reach a certain group of people.

  Just my few cents.

  Cheers

• sinweiy

  6 Jan 11, 22:15

  forever lost amongst the translation through google translate. Perhaps you would be kind as to elaborate your accusations ....

  the rough meaning were already repeatly and unyieldingly mentioned by Zenist69 over and over again.

  oh, i sort of got it. think Zenist69 stumbled on the website while looking for Di Zi Gui stuff. then start to believe every word the website say without much considering.

  actually i saw that website before like in 2001(?).  another guy here was also doing the same thing. there are quite a few of such sites, i find the writer(s) pretty vulgar and think he know buddhism. i think MCK also know that there are people out there deframing him, maybe jealous of MCK, but MCK told us to forgive them! such a benevolent old master don't listen go and listen to these hooliganism/deluded saying. sigh...

  old MCK is an old chinese person from china, who love to read olden chinese books, it's Natural that he bring out the 4books and 5scriptures 四书五ç»� and olden books. i like to listen to these old grandfather stories. perhaps not for youngsters, i guess.  if Buddhism arrive in the west, they also bring Christian /cultural saying to their dharma understanding, like Ven Heng Sure and Ven Hyon Gak Sunim . MCK stayed in US before, hence it's natural to read the Christian's stuff so as to know more about western people. same like Dalai Lama. their original Buddhadharma understanding is still very much intact and unmovable.

  i finished listen to MCK's recent talk. No. 234a.

  ftp://new.pllc.cn/media/64K/02/039/

  ftp://new.pllc.cn/media/64K/02/039/02-039-0234a.mp3

  which i think can clarified the air. the quote say the Fundamental of Buddhism is å��善业é�“ç»�; Daoism is 《太上感应篇》; Confucius is then Di Zi Gui. sometime the talk can be partial. where got, a sesson talk be absolutely perfect and complete. Buddha also use 49 years.

  at the end of the day, believe or not believe to a deluded person is always a deluded believe. but when the delusion is clear, both believe and not believe are all real faith. when i first saw the accusations in the past, good that my faith still intact, not easily move.  so easily move mean still have delusion. 

  a person wearing a deluded glasses will always see all things as deluded.

  yea, they really don't understand

  the saying ,"rather to disturb the water of a thousand great river than to disturb the mind [break the faith] of a practitioner ."

  /\

   

• Zenist69

  7 Jan 11, 11:25

   suggested by a couple of us to delete.

• Zenist69

  7 Jan 11, 12:00

   

• Weychin

  7 Jan 11, 12:16

  I am only able to see accusations without proper linking, or sentences taken out of context. Bit and pieces here and there. However, again, translation is imperfect.

  As long any teachings, upon completion, does not stray from the 3 dharma seals, 4 noble truths, and the eightfold path, is a proper teaching.

  A good Buddhist teacher, in my opinion, embodies two virtues, namely wisdom and compassion. Just like Guan Yin, who hears cries of the world,with skilful means, will appear in different form. 

   Teachings will be made according to the needs of the listeners, in this case probably to people with inclinations towards" superstition" and "ignorance".      

  There is a story(can't remember which) , about children playing in burning building. in order to save them, promises of gifts attractive to the children are made, toget the children out for the burning house first.   

   

• Weychin

  7 Jan 11, 12:29

  If one have not entered the door of of emptiness, and seen through it; everything will be seen with division.

  However, if one seen the emptiness of things, the impermanence of form, then one will be able the wisdom and truth coming out of all things.  

  Singlemindedness, without division, is the path. With this stillness in mind, sight of nature of all the phenomena arise.  

• Amitayus48

  7 Jan 11, 12:29

  “太上è€�å�›æ„Ÿåº”篇” is from Daoism, and the main daoism text is è€�å­�é�“å¾·ç»�, similar as the supreme Buddhism text is the Flower Adornment Sutra in Buddhism literature.
  
  In ���德�, it explained Buddha nature in the form of �, is my pleasure to extract a portion of its beautiful literature :

  ���德�
  ���，�常�。���，�常�。
  无�天地之始；有�万物之�。
  故常无，欲以观其妙；常有，欲以观其徼。
  此两者，�出而异�，�谓之玄。玄之�玄，众妙之门。
  
  上善若水。水善利万物而�争，处众人之所�，故几于�。
  
  视之��，�曰夷；�之�闻，�曰希；�之�得，�曰微。此三者��致诘，故混而为一。其上�皦，其下�昧。绳绳兮���，�归于物。是谓无状之状，无物之象，是谓惚�。迎之��其首，�之��其�。
  
  执�之�，以御今之有。能知�始，是谓�纪。
  
  有物混�，先天地生。寂兮寥兮，独立而�改，周行而�殆，�以为天地�。��知其�，强字之曰�，强为之�曰大。大曰�，�曰远，远曰�。
  
  和大怨，必有馀怨；报怨以德，安�以为善？
  
  是以圣人执左契，而�责于人。有德�契，无德�彻。
  
  天�无亲，常与善人。

  Asking you to nian Namo Amitofo, you nian otherwise, but if you would to nian other wise, it is perfectly in tune, according to Patriarch Dharma Master Ying Kuang.

  Namo Amitofo

   

• Pure Emptiness

  7 Jan 11, 12:30

   

• Zenist69

  7 Jan 11, 12:59

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  I am only able to see accusations without proper linking, or sentences taken out of context. Bit and pieces here and there. However, again, translation is imperfect.

  As long any teachings, upon completion, does not stray from the 3 dharma seals, 4 noble truths, and the eightfold path, is a proper teaching.

  A good Buddhist teacher, in my opinion, embodies two virtues, namely wisdom and compassion. Just like Guan Yin, who hears cries of the world,with skilful means, will appear in different form. 

   Teachings will be made according to the needs of the listeners, in this case probably to people with inclinations towards" superstition" and "ignorance".      

  There is a story(can't remember which) , about children playing in burning building. in order to save them, promises of gifts attractive to the children are made, toget the children out for the burning house first.   

   

  "1.净空邪说�存在应机说法的问题

  
  很多净空邪师的痴迷者在解释净空邪师的歪�邪说时，常�的一�说法就是认为那是应机说法，�是，净空邪师是在对全世界的人讲�说法，�存在应机的问题�
  净空邪师自己也说：“利用网路科技，我在新加å�¡è®²è¯�，全世界å�Œæ—¶éƒ½èƒ½æ”¶çœ‹ï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªæ–¹æ³•ä»¿ä½›ç»�中所说的ä¸�动é�“场，周é��å��方。现在交通便æ�·ï¼Œèµ„讯å�‘达，特别是网路科技，å�³ä½¿åœ¨æ—…行中，任何时间ã€�处所，都能与全世界è�”络，所以世界å�˜å°�了。”
  净空邪师还说：“ä¸�在场的那些å�¬ä¼—ä¸�晓得有多少？就åƒ�我们现在é�¢å¯¹è‘—录åƒ�机样，在å�«æ˜Ÿä¼ æ’­ã€�电脑网路上传é��全世界。现在人å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们讲ç»�，我们将æ�¥å¾€ç”Ÿ ä¸�在世，这个带å­�还留下去，å�Žé�¢äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°ã€‚我å�¬è¯´çŽ°åœ¨è¿™äº›å¸¦å­�，制作的水平很高，å�¯ä»¥ä¿�存两百年，我们没有那么长的寿命，两百年å�Žé‚£äº›äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们带 å­�，还能看到这个画é�¢ã€‚所以我们在此地讲ç»�说法，我们的生活一举一动ã€�一言一行，至少è¦�对两百年以å�Žçš„å�¬ä¼—è¦�负责任。” "

  http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm

• Zenist69

  7 Jan 11, 13:04

  Originally posted by Amitayus48:

  “太上è€�å�›æ„Ÿåº”篇” is from Daoism, and the main daoism text is è€�å­�é�“å¾·ç»�, similar as the supreme Buddhism text is the Flower Adornment Sutra in Buddhism literature.
  
  In ���德�, it explained Buddha nature in the form of �, is my pleasure to extract a portion of its beautiful literature :

  ���德�
  ���，�常�。���，�常�。
  无�天地之始；有�万物之�。
  故常无，欲以观其妙；常有，欲以观其徼。
  此两者，�出而异�，�谓之玄。玄之�玄，众妙之门。
  
  上善若水。水善利万物而�争，处众人之所�，故几于�。
  
  视之��，�曰夷；�之�闻，�曰希；�之�得，�曰微。此三者��致诘，故混而为一。其上�皦，其下�昧。绳绳兮���，�归于物。是谓无状之状，无物之象，是谓惚�。迎之��其首，�之��其�。
  
  执�之�，以御今之有。能知�始，是谓�纪。
  
  有物混�，先天地生。寂兮寥兮，独立而�改，周行而�殆，�以为天地�。��知其�，强字之曰�，强为之�曰大。大曰�，�曰远，远曰�。
  
  和大怨，必有馀怨；报怨以德，安�以为善？
  
  是以圣人执左契，而�责于人。有德�契，无德�彻。
  
  天�无亲，常与善人。

  Asking you to nian Namo Amitofo, you nian otherwise, but if you would to nian other wise, it is perfectly in tune, according to Patriarch Dharma Master Ying Kuang.

  Namo Amitofo

   

  "éš¾é�“《弟å­�规》ã€�《感应篇》和《新旧约》是佛陀è¯�悟的宇宙人生的真ç�†ï¼Ÿå¤–é�“的祖师爷们è¯�到了无实无虚的阿耨多罗三è—�三è�©æ��？所谓 “法法圆èž�”，是指佛陀说的å°�乘大乘，世出世间的一切法皆圆èž�，完全与外é�“没有关系，而净空å�´æŠŠæ‰€æœ‰å¤–é�“都牵扯进æ�¥ï¼Œç«Ÿæ•¢è¯´“所有宗教里é�¢çš„东西统统是佛 法”，完全曲解佛陀在《金刚ç»�》上讲的：“é¡»è�©æ��，如æ�¥æ‰€å¾—阿耨多罗三è—�三è�©æ��，于是中无实无虚，是故如æ�¥è¯´ä¸€åˆ‡æ³•ï¼Œçš†æ˜¯ä½›æ³•ã€‚”的原æ„�。"

  http://www.douban.com/group/topic/11720690/