*redundant post, deleted.*
Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:Funny leh u all want slander fashi at least chose ven ming yi fashi. This fashi gt tarnish the buddhism reputation in spore and caused alot of my relatives n frenz to slander budddhism.
U all slander venerable chin kong for? He gt tarnish buddhism reputation meh?
This is only my opinion.
If the criticism are spot on, valid, then where's the slander on Jing Kong Dharma Master??
Originally posted by Zenist69:If the criticism are spot on, valid, then where's the slander on Jing Kong Dharma Master??
I am not a buddhist expert. If i make any mistakes pls forgive me.
Originally posted by Zenist69:"1.净空邪说ä¸�å˜åœ¨åº”机说法的问题
很多净空邪师的痴迷者在解释净空邪师的æªç�†é‚ªè¯´æ—¶ï¼Œå¸¸è§�的一ç§�说法就是认为那是应机说法，å�¯æ˜¯ï¼Œå‡€ç©ºé‚ªå¸ˆæ˜¯åœ¨å¯¹å…¨ä¸–界的人讲ç»�说法，ä¸�å˜åœ¨åº”机的问题ï¼�
净空邪师自己也说：“åˆ©ç”¨ç½‘è·¯ç§‘æŠ€ï¼Œæˆ‘åœ¨æ–°åŠ å�¡è®²è¯�，全世界å�Œæ—¶éƒ½èƒ½æ”¶çœ‹ï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªæ–¹æ³•ä»¿ä½›ç»�ä¸æ‰€è¯´çš„ä¸�动é�“场，周é��å��方。现在交通便æ�·ï¼Œèµ„讯å�‘达，特别是网路科技，å�³ä½¿åœ¨æ—…è¡Œä¸ï¼Œä»»ä½•æ—¶é—´ã€�处所，都能与全世界è�”络，所以世界å�˜å°�了。”
净空邪师还说：“ä¸�在场的那些å�¬ä¼—ä¸�晓得有多少？就åƒ�我们现在é�¢å¯¹è‘—录åƒ�æœºæ ·ï¼Œåœ¨å�«æ˜Ÿä¼ æ’ã€�ç”µè„‘ç½‘è·¯ä¸Šä¼ é��全世界。现在人å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们讲ç»�，我们将æ�¥å¾€ç”Ÿ ä¸�在世，这个带å�还留下去，å�Žé�¢äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°ã€‚我å�¬è¯´çŽ°åœ¨è¿™äº›å¸¦å�，制作的水平很高，å�¯ä»¥ä¿�å˜ä¸¤ç™¾å¹´ï¼Œæˆ‘们没有那么长的寿命，两百年å�Žé‚£äº›äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们带 å�，还能看到这个画é�¢ã€‚所以我们在æ¤åœ°è®²ç»�说法，我们的生活一举一动ã€�一言一行，至少è¦�对两百年以å�Žçš„å�¬ä¼—è¦�负责任。” "http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm
A 外� would interprete it as wai dao way of life. 佛陀 no say, if you claimed 佛陀 got a say is 外� and "pang far". The 法is always 圆�, but the people dun want to ��and 美美, so wat to do - best is to recite Namo Amitofo
"1. Headroom heresy of saying there is no issue should be machine
A lot of headroom in the interpretation of evil fanatics division clearance evil teacher of heresies, the common argument is that a machine that should be said, however, clearance is the evil teacher who preached to the whole world, not There should be machine problem!
Clearance evil teacher himself said: "The use of Internet technology, I speak in Singapore, the world can watch the same time, this method is not mentioned as if fixed by the temple, Zhou Bian Shifang. Now convenient transportation, advanced information technology, in particular, Internet technology, even in the travel, any time, premises, can connect with the world, so the world smaller. "
Clearance evil teacher said: "without the presence of those listeners do not know how many? As we are now faced with VCR-like, in satellite communication, computer network spread all over the world. Now people listen to our preaching, our future died not living, this tape also left to go, people could hear the back. I heard that the tape, the high level of production, you can save two hundred years, we do not have a long life, those who can listen to two hundred years to our tape, but also to see this picture. So here we preached to our lives every move, every word, at least the audience of two hundred years later to be responsible. ""
" Dun shoot the messenger."
Anyway, Zenist69, you are no neutral party from the outset. You has taken another's view as your own platform , so you are an agent of your own free will.
Like saying"Oh ! I did not create this muck ! somebody else did ! All I did was scoop it up and slap it !"
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:I suggest that if you don't like Master Chin Kong's talk, you can always listen to other master's talk but don't defame any Ven. I know many people take refuge after listening to his talks, so he is not an ordinary person. He is someone with great credits because many people take refuge because of him. So, don't discredit yourself by criticizing him. I agree that there are many bogus monks nowadays but Master Chin Kong is definitely not one of them.
Whether his talk is right or wrong, let the listeners decide. We Buddhists must stay united, don't defame any one of us unless that person is doing harm to Buddhism. I don't see people stay away from Buddhism after listening to his talks, instead many people take 3 refuges after listening to his talks.
Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.
Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.
People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.
Originally posted by Weychin:
If I didn't understand wrongly, this is what the passage is actually trying to say.
"Many of Chin Kung's followers like to say that his contradictory statements were often said due to particular needs of the audience at a particular point in time. But in fact, Chin Kung himself acknowledges and espouses the use of modern recording and broadcasting technology to preserve Dharma talks. He further states that, "what is said today, can still be heard at least some 200 years later; hence the need to be responsible with what one says and does today." Herein, according to Chin Kung's detractors, lies the inherent contradiction in his ideas and actions."
yea, i read them, they still look like "external" stuff, plain bashing, and upsidedown. doesn't concur with the real essence of Dharma to me. the message only see the external stuff of Buddhism than the essence of dharma. external stuff in other word mean waidao; 心外求法 or they called it upsidedowné¢ å€’æ˜¯é�ž. Dharma should stress more on actualityé‡�实质 than on appearance/label ä¸�é‡�å½¢å¼�. only a person who's 邪 see things as 邪 .
they are still pretty much taking words out of context. if MCK is wrong then many other masters (like Zen master Hyon Gak Sunim ) also wrong for saying bible stuff.
btw many people/spirits are rebirth in pureland because of him, and u say the teaching dangerous? the messager got such credit in helping people rebirth into pureland? to me the messager is the one that is misleading with it's limited understanding. the messager to me is the one that's a mara in disguise. he/she is the one using subjective potion and blowing it out big.
and strangely, what's reading Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖 got to do with his teaching of rebirth in pureland by reciting Amituofo and other pureland teachings. i listen so many years, and i read them, but my faith in pureland and Amitabha is not a tiny bit affected. as they are also taught nicely by MCK. to me, i won't be bother with the "messager" allegations, since they are incomplete anyway. æ³•æ— å®šæ³•ã€�定法é�žæ³•ã€‚
ps: sorry guys, i might slowly delete all the chinese bashing stuff.
/\
Originally posted by realization:I believe you've used some online translation service to translate the following passage which was originally posted by Zenist69.
"1.净空邪说ä¸�å˜åœ¨åº”机说法的问题
很多净空邪师的痴迷者在解释净空邪师的æªç�†é‚ªè¯´æ—¶ï¼Œå¸¸è§�的一ç§�说法就是认为那是应机说法，å�¯æ˜¯ï¼Œå‡€ç©ºé‚ªå¸ˆæ˜¯åœ¨å¯¹å…¨ä¸–界的人讲ç»�说法，ä¸�å˜åœ¨åº”机的问题ï¼�
净空邪师自己也说：“åˆ©ç”¨ç½‘è·¯ç§‘æŠ€ï¼Œæˆ‘åœ¨æ–°åŠ å�¡è®²è¯�，全世界å�Œæ—¶éƒ½èƒ½æ”¶çœ‹ï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªæ–¹æ³•ä»¿ä½›ç»�ä¸æ‰€è¯´çš„ä¸�动é�“场，周é��å��方。现在交通便æ�·ï¼Œèµ„讯å�‘达，特别是网 路科技，å�³ä½¿åœ¨æ—…è¡Œä¸ï¼Œä»»ä½•æ—¶é—´ã€�处所，都能与全世界è�”络，所以世界å�˜å°�了。”
净空邪师还说：“ä¸�在场的那些å�¬ä¼—ä¸�晓得有多少？就åƒ�我们现在é�¢å¯¹è‘—录åƒ�æœºæ ·ï¼Œåœ¨å�«æ˜Ÿä¼ æ’ã€�ç”µè„‘ç½‘è·¯ä¸Šä¼ é��全世界。现在人å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们讲ç»�，我们将æ�¥å¾€ç”Ÿ ä¸�在世，这个带å�还留下去，å�Žé�¢äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°ã€‚我å�¬è¯´çŽ°åœ¨è¿™äº›å¸¦å�，制作的水平很高，å�¯ä»¥ä¿�å˜ä¸¤ç™¾å¹´ï¼Œæˆ‘们没有那么长的寿命，两百年å�Žé‚£äº›äººè¿˜èƒ½å�¬åˆ°æˆ‘们带 å�，还能看到这个画é�¢ã€‚所以我们在æ¤åœ°è®²ç»�说法，我们的生活一举一动ã€�一言一行，至少è¦�对两百年以å�Žçš„å�¬ä¼—è¦�负责任。” "http://www.tianjian.org/jingkongxs/jk12.htm
If I didn't understand wrongly, this is what the passage is actually trying to say.
"Many of Chin Kung's followers like to say that his contradictory statements were often said due to particular needs of the audience at a particular point in time. But in fact, Chin Kung himself acknowledges and espouses the use of modern recording and broadcasting technology to preserve Dharma talks. He further states that, "what is said today, can still be heard at least some 200 years later; hence the need to be responsible with what one says and does today." Herein, according to Chin Kung's detractors, lies the inherent contradiction in his ideas and actions."
Thanks for your translation, it really helps when one is able to put into context!
That said, unfortunately, one still have address different people with different outlook and world views differently. Those that could learn and benefit would agree, and be at peace,while those with tunnel vision will see differently.
Originally posted by sinweiy:........
they are still pretty much nonsensical, vulgar and faslely putting words in people's mouth or taking words out of context. if MCK is wrong then all other masters also wrong for saying bible stuff. He NEVER say they are part of Buddhism. it's any how puting words on other peoples mouth....
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净空说：“我å†�告诉诸ä½�，基ç�£æ•™çš„《新旧约》就是《大è—�ç»�》，《大è—�ç»�ã€‹å°±æ˜¯ã€Šæ–°æ—§çº¦ã€‹ï¼Œä½ æ‡‚ä¸�æ‡‚ï¼Ÿæ— æœ‰ä¸€æ³•ä¸�圆，法法圆èž�。基ç�£æ•™çš„牧师为什么讲ä¸�圆？ 他没有圆解。过去于斌主教在辅ä»�大å¦å�Žé�¢å¤šé©¬æ–¯ä¿®é�“院内，基ç�£æ•™äºšæ´²ä¸»æ•™å›¢å…´åŠžçš„ä¸œäºšç²¾ç¥žç”Ÿæ´»ç ”ç©¶æ‰€ï¼Œè¯·æˆ‘åŽ»è®²ä½›æ•™ç²¾ç¥žç”Ÿæ´»ã€‚é‚£æ—¶æˆ‘å°±æ„Ÿåˆ°å¾ˆé�—憾，他应该 请我讲《新旧约全书》就好了。”——ã€Šä½›è¯´å¤§ä¹˜æ— é‡�寿庄严清净平ç‰è§‰ç»�讲记·å¾€ç”Ÿæ£å› 第二å��五》
MCK said New and Old Testament is Buddhist Tripitaka, and the Tripitaka is the New and Old Testament. When did I put words in his mouth?? This kind of message by MCK, to say the Bible is Tripitaka, isn't it dangerous from Buddhism point of view??? You are the one playing mind trick: you are playing mind trick on your own mind!
Originally posted by Zenist69:Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.
Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.
People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.
I am happy that you said you voiced out out of your concerns for Buddhism. Buddhism needs more people like you but this time you are on the wrong track. You have been duped by the person behind the scene who is out to slander MCK. This guy is taking everything out of context just to achieve his motive.
I had watched a video on youtube which I believe was filmed by the same person to slander MCK. Give me sometime to search for it again and I shall pm you. I was almost duped by him till I found out that he took things out of context.
To be continued.............
Originally posted by sinweiy:.......
and strangely, what's reading Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖 got to do with his teaching of rebirth in pureland by reciting Amituofo and other pureland teachings. i listen so many years, and i read them, but my faith in pureland and Amitabha is not a tiny bit affected. as they are also taught nicely by MCK. to me, why bother with the "messager" allegations, since they are not helpful, false and nonsensical anyway.
.....
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When did I say those books gotta do with MCK teaching of rebirth, and pureland teaching? I am saying he had mixed up his position as a Dharma Master with ambassador for Chinese culture too. But Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, Di Zi Gui, and wat not Chinese books are not part of Buddhism! He got confuse with his role! Di Zi Gui and Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian are not Buddhism! And yet, he introduce it as entry and foundation to Buddhism! Which shows his mind is muddled as a Dharma Master!
Originally posted by Zenist69:Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.
Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.
People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.
Buddhism is not preached to people in a void, before being a Buddhist already exists a world view which one inherits. By being a Buddhist, one does not suddenly go through a transformation and VOILA!!! Instant enlightenment, instant buddha.
For one to accept a new religion, it must be seen and good and compatible with previous positive beliefs. One must be able to see the good that endures in another belief.
Originally posted by Zenist69:Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.
Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.
People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.
There was one part which showed MCK praised Jesus and said we are all God's children. This guy behind the scene questioned why MCK praised Jesus instead of Goddess of Mercy. I was a bit disppointed too.
Later, I found out that MCK's talk was in a church as he was invited to a church. MCK said we are all children of God. I guess his intention was asking Christians not to bash Buddhists as we are all God's children. But this guy behind the scene did not mention and he had taken everything out of contect to slander MCK.
Originally posted by sinweiy:yea, i read them, they still look like external stuff and 邪说. doesn't concur with the real essence of Dharma to me. the message only see the external stuff of Buddhism than the essence of dharma. external stuff in other word mean waidao; 心外求法. Dharma should stress more on actuality�实质 than on appearance/label ��形�. only a person who's 邪 see things as 邪 also....
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MCK teachings such as, 'The Bible is Tripitaka, and the Tripitaka is the Bible.' Dun tell me thats not a 邪说 from Buddhism point of view?? ��形� means can spew nonsensical teaching to that extend such as that one??
Originally posted by Weychin:Buddhism is not preached to people in a void, before being a Buddhist already exists a world view which one inherits. By being a Buddhist, one does not suddenly go through a transformation and VOILA!!! Instant enlightenment, instant buddha.
For one to accept a new religion, it must be seen and good and compatible with previous positive beliefs. One must be able to see the good that endures in another belief.
Many people dun believe in Confucinism or Daoism too! But his stance is Di Zi Gui (Confucius teaching), Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian (Daoism) and some other wai dao books to serve as entry and foundation to Buddhism, regardless their belief system!
Originally posted by Zenist69:Its not about whether I like his message or not. To be frank, I really like his message initially. Hey, I am a Chinese, and I do feel sense of pride in Chinese culture too. He talk about how the Chinese cutlure has got so much wisdom and all the good stuff, which modern people especially the Westerners dont know about it. I like that kind of message too. I really do. I have Dao De Jing, Zhuang Zi, 笑傲江湖, etc, on my bookshelf too. But the thing is, his position, he's a Dharma Master. His duty is not Chinese culture, his duty is not ambassador for Chinese history and culture. His duty is towards Buddhism, and mankind 众生. He should be ambassador, teacher of BuddhaDharma, not Christianity, not Taoism, not Islam, not Confucism, not the wai dao. 'cause wai dao are imperfect, 'cause he's a Buddhist and a Dharma Master.
Given a choice, I rather not doing this. Because my energy and strength is limited. But I bor bian! I chance upon it, its karma, and I have to play it out, follow my conscience and karma. I cant just walk away and pretend all is well when I realize the misleading, and danger of Jing Kong Dharma Master teachings.
People take refuge because him Jing Kong Dharma Master, thats another matter. If people go take refuge, and believe in every word Jing Kong Dharma Master said, thats not good news, thats really really bad news. 'cause some of Jing Kong Dharma Master message are really dangerous. And those teachings, those messages (e.g. Dun go see doc or take medicine when fall sick, just chant AMTF，Bible is also part of Buddhist Canon, etc) could hurt one's 法身慧命。I feel oblige to sound off the alarm, thats all.
Sorry, something wrong. I wrote a lot but never get posted so I break into parts inorder not to waste my effort.
MCK once said the reason why Buddhism was so widespread compared to Christianity which was spread to China at almost the same time was because Buddhism was able to relate to Chinese value (Confucius values etc).
MCK also said inorder for Buddhism to spread to western countries, temples in western countries need to be built like western buildings and Buddha must have the look of "angmo" . Just like in Thailand, Buddhas look like Thai and in China, Buddhas look like Chinese. Sounds logical to me, I understand that the mosques in China look like Chinese temples though I've not seen.
Originally posted by Zenist69:净空说：“我å†�告诉诸ä½�，基ç�£æ•™çš„《新旧约》就是《大è—�ç»�》，《大è—�ç»�ã€‹å°±æ˜¯ã€Šæ–°æ—§çº¦ã€‹ï¼Œä½ æ‡‚ä¸�æ‡‚ï¼Ÿæ— æœ‰ä¸€æ³•ä¸�圆，法法圆èž�。基ç�£æ•™çš„牧师为什么讲ä¸�圆？他没有圆解。过去于斌主教在辅ä»�大å¦å�Žé�¢å¤šé©¬æ–¯ä¿®é�“院内，基ç�£æ•™äºšæ´²ä¸»æ•™å›¢å…´åŠžçš„ä¸œäºšç²¾ç¥žç”Ÿæ´»ç ”ç©¶æ‰€ï¼Œè¯·æˆ‘åŽ»è®²ä½›æ•™ç²¾ç¥žç”Ÿæ´»ã€‚é‚£æ—¶æˆ‘å°±æ„Ÿåˆ°å¾ˆé�—憾，他应该请我讲《新旧约全书》就好了。”——ã€Šä½›è¯´å¤§ä¹˜æ— é‡�寿庄严清净平ç‰è§‰ç»�讲记·å¾€ç”Ÿæ£å› 第二å��五》
MCK said New and Old Testament is Buddhist Tripitaka, and the Tripitaka is the New and Old Testament. When did I put words in his mouth?? This kind of message by MCK, to say the Bible is Tripitaka, isn't it dangerous from Buddhism point of view??? You are the one playing mind trick: you are playing mind trick on your own mind!
sorry, i re-edited. actually i can understand the deeper meaning behind his saying. but i guess it's too deep to understand for people who are still carrying attachment, dualism and wandering thoughts. of the �通别圆, think he's still within �通or 别 level, not yet reached the level of 圆 complete level.
"ä½ æ‡‚ä¸�懂" contain ch'an meaning. ä½ æ‡‚ä¸�懂? i guess ä¸�懂. yea, ch'an saying can be nonsensical. but it does not mean it's meaning is away from Buddhism.
shared with you one well-known story between the famous Chinese scholar Su Dongpo and his good friend Zen Buddhist Master Foyin.
One day, Su Dongpo and Zen Master foyin was meditating in the monastery. When they finished, Su asked Foyin, "what do you see in front of you?"
"An enlightened Buddha!" Fo Yin smiled, "and what do you see?"
"A pile of bull shit!" Su Dong Po was making fun of Fo Yin. Su and Foyin often debated on Buddhism and philosophy and Foyin always defeated Su. Su thought this time he won! As previously he was scolded 放� by Fo Yin, thinking he had reached the unmovable mind.
Su Dong Po went home with a light heart. At the door, he met his little sister. She asked why her brother looked so happy.
"Because I won this time."
"How?" his little sister asked.
Upon hearing the story, Su's sister commented,
"My dear brother, you lost again."
"What?" he protested.
"Foyin has reached the state of a Buddha's mind. That is why he saw you as a Buddha. On the other hand, you had nothing but bull shit in your heart. As a result, you saw everything else as shit"
as u can see, Master Foyin see Su Dongpo as Buddha. if one have reached the state of a Buddha's mind, u see everyone including 'jesus' as Buddha. if one reach a bodhisattva mind, one will see all as bodhisattvas.
last night, i see u as a bodhisattva. recently been beseeching Buddha/bodhisattvas to help solve the bad habit. they use some other "technique" plus this debate make the mind occupied instead of wandering about. sort of remind me of Tibetan/Varjayana practice where 2 person debating each other while clapping the hand. i'll be taking note on this skillful technique in future, to help others. Thanks!
æ³•æ— å®šæ³•ã€�定法é�žæ³•ã€‚
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Originally posted by Zenist69:Many people dun believe in Confucinism or Daoism too! But his stance is Di Zi Gui (Confucius teaching), Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian (Daoism) and some other wai dao books to serve as entry and foundation to Buddhism, regardless their belief system!
as me and Isis mentioned on morality/sila, it's the Buddhadharma that stress on result �实质 of being a fundamental good moral person that count for the entry, rather than the label that it's Di Zi Gui (Confucius teaching), Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian (Daoism). i don't even care if it's label "Bible", as long as the teaching result is that the person turn out good and moral, it's a good solid foundation to higher Buddhism, period.
BTW/FYI, The Buddha taught Five Vehicles of Buddhism. World Jen Chen Buddhism is dedicated to the promotion of the Humanity Vehicle Buddhsim. (The other four vehicles are Deva, Sravaka, Pratyeka-Buddha and Bodhisattva Vehicles.)
that mean if a person, previously is a Christian, for example, live a good moral life, than later on, he want to rebirth in pureland or learn Mahayana teaching. then his progress will be much faster than normal people that lack morality. foundation, does not stand for no more higher Mahayana learning afterward per se. they still need to learn somemore. not just stop there.
moreover, as the bohiruci mentioned these are below 10% of his vast teaching. more than 90% are detail explaination of many Buddha sutras in detail, stanza by stanza. slowly as one learn, the realisation will get to his highest state of Oneness法法圆�. like Amitayus48 is trying to say.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:There was one part which showed MCK praised Jesus and said we are all God's children. This guy behind the scene questioned why MCK praised Jesus instead of Goddess of Mercy. I was a bit disppointed too.
Later, I found out that MCK's talk was in a church as he was invited to a church. MCK said we are all children of God. I guess his intention was asking Christians not to bash Buddhists as we are all God's children. But this guy behind the scene did not mention and he had taken everything out of contect to slander MCK.
i more funny, last time i used to embrace all "religions" as one. as i read some stuff regarding all religions are created by alien and stuff and start to believe. then i know a Christian who gave me some advice, saying they are Demonic and it's taking ur soul to hell. then i got scared and start reading bible stuff and also believe in God. the mind also become quite suspicious. that time still young and ignorance. but the more i read on bible meaning, the more unsolved questions i have. then slowly i move into Buddhism, which solve more of my questions. from "hinayana" to mahayana to one vehicle to pureland. at first also quite dogmatic, now really understand wat's è—�通别圆 çš„ 圆教.... 法法圆èž�, æ— æœ‰ä¸€æ³•ä¸�圆. All is one. One is All.
ps: in case the system got something wrong. before u post select all your texts, right click copy, then press post. this way u can re paste if it did not go through. i always do this.
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When MCK advocates on Di Zhi Gui for example, he is advocating the importance of being morally upright, being virtuous; to do good and avoid evil. These teachings bring harmony and goodness to the society. How can this be against Buddhism? Furthermore, If you read and listen more of his talks, you will see that he teaches about the Dharma - just as Law of Karma, Four Noble Truth, Noble Eightfold Path, Great Compassion etc and many many more. When he said Bible is Tripitaka. Did he teaches that there is a creator ? Did he teach that there is a self and we exist independently? Did he teach that we must believe in a creator ? No he didn't. So he is not saying that Bible is Tripitaka................. so he is not teaching wrong stuffs.....
Originally posted by sinweiy:
as me and Isis mentioned on morality/sila, it's the Buddhadharma that stress on result �实质 of being a fundamental good moral person that count for the entry, rather than the label that it's Di Zi Gui (Confucius teaching), Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian (Daoism). i don't even care if it's label "Bible", as long as the teaching result is that the person turn out good and moral, it's a good solid foundation to higher Buddhism, period.BTW/FYI, The Buddha taught Five Vehicles of Buddhism. World Jen Chen Buddhism is dedicated to the promotion of the Humanity Vehicle Buddhsim. (The other four vehicles are Deva, Sravaka, Pratyeka-Buddha and Bodhisattva Vehicles.)
that mean if a person, previously is a Christian, for example, live a good moral life, than later on, he want to rebirth in pureland or learn Mahayana teaching. then his progress will be much faster than normal people that lack morality. foundation, does not stand for no more higher Mahayana learning afterward per se. they still need to learn somemore. not just stop there.
moreover, as the bohiruci mentioned these are below 10% of his vast teaching. more than 90% are detail explaination of many Buddha sutras in detail, stanza by stanza. slowly as one learn, the realisation will get to his highest state of Oneness法法圆�. like Amitayus48 is trying to say.
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Morality in Confucianism, Daoism, Christianity, is not the same as morality in Buddhism.
For example. George Bush. He's a Christian. But he had caused lots of lives taken by waging war with Iraq. From some Christians point of view, he's a good guy. But from Buddhism point of view... Whats morally upright and good for wai dao such as Christian and Muslim, might not be consider morally upright and good for Buddhism.
Same with Confucianism. It's morality is different from morality in Buddhism. Confucianism, there's a underlying emphasis in respecting and obeying the authority. Like I said before, there are times we have to challenge the authority, such as some corrupt government or political leader, or some inhuman government such as Nazi government, or abusive parents, husband, boss, etc. Respecting and obeying the authority shouldn't be the emphasis. Emphasis should be on goodness, such as having compassionate heart and behavior.
By using wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism, MCK he's creating unnecessary problem from my point of view. 'cause those wai dao morality has got some problem, and flaws in it. Why not go straight and use Buddhist books/ sutras as entry and foundation to Buddhism instead since wai dao books and teachings are flawed? Is it because of attachment to some wai dao teachings and books?
I had pretty much state my piece. If u guys still dun get it, then, its beyond my capacity for now. My priority is to practice Buddhism. I can only spend so much time on telling u guys, something's wrong with MCK.
AMTF.
Originally posted by Zenist69:Morality in Confucianism, Daoism, Christianity, is not the same as morality in Buddhism.
For example. George Bush. He's a Christian. But he had caused lots of lives taken by waging war with Iraq. From some Christians point of view, he's a good guy. But from Buddhism point of view... Whats morally upright and good for wai dao such as Christian and Muslim, might not be consider morally upright and good for Buddhism.
Same with Confucianism. It's morality is different from morality in Buddhism. Confucianism, there's a underlying emphasis in respecting and obeying the authority. Like I said before, there are times we have to challenge the authority, such as some corrupt government or political leader, or some inhuman government such as Nazi government, or abusive parents, husband, boss, etc. Respecting and obeying the authority shouldn't be the emphasis. Emphasis should be on goodness, such as having compassionate heart and behavior.
By using wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism, MCK he's creating unnecessary problem from my point of view. 'cause those wai dao morality has got some problem, and flaws in it. Why not go straight and use Buddhist books/ sutras as entry and foundation to Buddhism instead since wai dao books and teachings are flawed? Is it because of attachment to some wai dao teachings and books?
I had pretty much state my piece. If u guys still dun get it, then, its beyond my capacity for now. My priority is to practice Buddhism. I can only spend so much time on telling u guys, something's wrong with MCK.
AMTF.
George Bush has done the wrong things because he has the wrong views, views of self righteousness, clinging to dogma, thinking he is doing god's word. He is not a good christian , he only think he is.
The most important lesson a christian can learn is love and forgiveness, how many vocally visible christians you've seen practising that?!! Not much, because if one have the expansiveness of love, and generosity of forgiveness, there is really nothing much to say; just practising what one preaches!
The problem in any beliefs or religion is clinging to dogma, only able to see one views as correct and other's false without investigation.
Your outlook reminds me of the monk Fa Hai(?) in the story Madam White Snake .
Practising Buddhism is about letting go........
What is morality,who or what does morality pertains to? What is an universally acceptable upright conduct?
Maybe someone would post something on it!
All teachings, at sometime or another, have been abused, used as mandate to rule and abused over others. When interpretation of doctrine becomes rigid, it becomes dogma, blind faith and enforcement, it happens.
Do you know, when the son of heaven loses that mandate to rule, he can be removed according to confucianism!
One of the more difficult to grasp, is the concept of illusory self. Even you don't seem to get it, even though you've labelled yourself as a Buddhist. The moment you've drawn a line, you've created a division between you and others.
Everyone is slightly different from each other, we pick and become aware at a different point. Even if both of us study the same sutra, under the same teacher, our awareness and perception comes out differently.
I've read from somewhere that Mahayana teachings is like a spider(?)web, it is cast very wide in order to "catch" us in the fold of Buddhism. Such is the wisdom!