Open advice to Zenist69

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 17:10

  Another thing, all the accusations you've drawn are based upon hearsay, meaning, there is no direct presentation of proof, in which I and others, are drawn into commenting, which does'nt really help clear the air. 

  Also, you have not be forthright at the beginning about your intentions .

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 18:22

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  One of the more difficult to grasp, is the concept of illusory self. Even you don't seem to get it, even though you've labelled yourself as a Buddhist.  The moment you've drawn a line, you've created a division between you and others.

  Everyone is slightly different from each other, we pick and become aware at a different point. Even if both of us study the same sutra, under the same teacher, our awareness and perception comes out differently.

  I've read from somewhere that Mahayana teachings is like a spider(?)web, it is cast very wide in order to "catch"  us  in the fold of Buddhism. Such is the wisdom!

  If no line should be drawn, then Haiti voodo also could be part of Buddhism? Come on. And also, I didn't say that we all should not read wai dao books or hear wai dao teachings. But the least, we shouldn't use wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism! We should use conventional entry level Buddhist books and sutra. Is that too much to ask? Isn't it MCK out of line when he introduce wai dao books as entry to Buddhism? No? No rule, no line to be drawn, anyhow humtum also can? How about using Enid Blyton children books, or African folklore books as entry to Buddhism?? He is out of line! I am pretty open minded myself. Its just that I find that introducing wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism baffling and mindboggling to me.

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 18:41

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  If no line should be drawn, then Haiti voodo also could be part of Buddhism? Come on. And also, I didn't say that we all should not read wai dao books or hear wai dao teachings. But the least, we shouldn't use wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism! We should use conventional entry level Buddhist books and sutra. Is that too much to ask? Isn't it MCK out of line when he introduce wai dao books as entry to Buddhism? No? No rule, no line to be drawn, anyhow humtum also can? How about using Enid Blyton children books, or African folklore books as entry to Buddhism?? He is out of line! I am pretty open minded myself. Its just that I find that introducing wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism baffling and mindboggling to me.

  Perhaps you should read about Guru Rinpoche and how he spread Buddhism into Tibet and incorporated the local deities to be protectors. If he had taken your line there  may be still be strifes in Tibet owing to religious divide. 

  Now if you were a Buddhist approaching me, in this instance, a christian, would you treat and regard me like an enemy and call me heretic? Is that the Buddhist way?

  Also, if I were to show my bible  and say "I live by the living word of the bible", and would'nt  you appropriately show me and say "And I, the tripitaka, for the Buddha says, he who see  the dharma sees me"

• Dawnfirstlight

  8 Jan 11, 18:44

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  If no line should be drawn, then Haiti voodo also could be part of Buddhism? Come on. And also, I didn't say that we all should not read wai dao books or hear wai dao teachings. But the least, we shouldn't use wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism! We should use conventional entry level Buddhist books and sutra. Is that too much to ask? Isn't it MCK out of line when he introduce wai dao books as entry to Buddhism? No? No rule, no line to be drawn, anyhow humtum also can? How about using Enid Blyton children books, or African folklore books as entry to Buddhism?? He is out of line! I am pretty open minded myself. Its just that I find that introducing wai dao books as entry and foundation to Buddhism baffling and mindboggling to me.

  I have to say you got a point but I think MCK knows which wai dao are close to Buddhism and which are not.

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 18:54

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  Perhaps you should read about Guru Rinpoche and how he spread Buddhism into Tibet and incorporated the local deities to be protectors. If he had taken your line there  may be still be strifes in Tibet owing to religious divide. 

  Now if you were a Buddhist approaching me, in this instance, a christian, would you treat and regard me like an enemy and call me heretic? Is that the Buddhist way?

  Also, if I were to show my bible  and say "I live by the living word of the bible", and would'nt  you appropriately show me and say "And I, the tripitaka, for the Buddha says, he who see  the dharma sees me"

  I dun noe much about Tibetan Buddhism. But I didn't see using Di Zi Gui as basic and entry to Buddhism as an orthodox way in Chinese Buddhism.

  No, I wont treat Christian as a heretic. I think they are just poor thing and lost thats all. But if I am gonna introduce Buddhism to those who's interested, or got karmic force （缘） with me, I will not tell them to go read Di Zi Gui for start.

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 18:59

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  I have to say you got a point but I think MCK knows which wai dao are close to Buddhism and which are not.

  Maybe close to Buddhism, but neverthless, they are not Buddhism.

   "毫厘有差，天地悬隔。" --- 信心铭

• sinweiy

  8 Jan 11, 19:02

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Morality in Confucianism, Daoism, Christianity, is not the same as morality in Buddhism.

  
  erm.. i think the examples u gave is not due to the fault of the teachings but due to the person never really practice them in the way the teaching is suppose to represent. we buddhists who don't really practice our own teaching well enough will also become bad examples, like some recent cases. there are always good and bad examples for all teachings. Morality is Morality, good conduct is good conduct, there's no different what so ever, as long as the result is good conduct.

  the main purpose of the Confucian teaching is also for the authority to be good. when they are good, the peasants welfare will also be good. like the case of Mr Hu Xiao Lin, studing under MCK, as a boss, he take good care of his employee. His first prority is the welfare and happiness of his employee, productivity is last. this kind of boss, i also want to work under him. there are also many benevolent Kings in the past.

  the more people did not practice the way their teachings are suppose to represent the more MCK and us want to help make them understand the teachings better.

  /\

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 19:04

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  I dun noe much about Tibetan Buddhism. But I didn't see using Di Zi Gui as basic and entry to Buddhism as an orthodox way in Chinese Buddhism.

  No, I wont treat Christian as a heretic. I think they are just poor thing and lost thats all. But if I am gonna introduce Buddhism to those who's interested, or got karmic force （缘） with me, I will not tell them to go read Di Zi Gui for start.

  I used to read Enid Blyton when I was young, and no, I would not recommended using it  as  foundation  for life as it contain a lot of discrimination pertaining Enid Blyton's era.

  However,Di Zi Gui is different story,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di_Zi_Gui. But that being so, It may not be appropriate in India, Nepal and most Indochinese countries. Maybe Vietnam, as it is more chinese than indian.  

   

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 19:05

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  Another thing, all the accusations you've drawn are based upon hearsay, meaning, there is no direct presentation of proof, in which I and others, are drawn into commenting, which does'nt really help clear the air. 

  Also, you have not be forthright at the beginning about your intentions .

  Most of those articles, their accusation are not hearsay. They quote when did MCK say it, in what lecture did he say it, etc. And they made comment, criticism on MCK base on wat he had said.

  At certain point recently, I find MCK sect and MCK, find them something's wrong. So I go think about it, research on those criticism on MCK, and I come up with my conclusion that something is in fact wrong, off with MCK. And I voice out my concern here. To sound off the alarm as a concern fellow Buddhist. Thats the inteniton.

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 19:18

  If this is the case, then present what you have found out, and  present it in an open manner. You are making an accusation. He say/ she says is still an opinion, not fact.  

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 19:25

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  erm.. i think the examples u gave is not due to the fault of the teachings but due to the person never really practice them in the way the teaching is suppose to represent. we buddhists who don't really practice our own teaching well enough will also become bad examples, like some recent cases. there are always good and bad examples for all teachings. Morality is Morality, good conduct is good conduct, there's no different what so ever, as long as the result is good conduct.

  the main purpose of the Confucian teaching is also for the authority to be good. when they are good, the peasants welfare will also be good. like the case of Mr Hu Xiao Lin, studing under MCK, as a boss, he take good care of his employee. His first prority is the welfare and happiness of his employee, productivity is last. this kind of boss, i also want to work under him. there are also many benevolent Kings in the past.

  the more people did not practice the way their teachings are suppose to represent the more MCK and us want to help make them understand the teachings better.

  /\

  Different religion has got different morality. Caste system is moral for the Hindu. But is it moral from Buddhism point of view? Killing people of different faith is okay, said the Koran. Its moral. Its good conduct. But is it moral and good conduct from Buddhism point of view? God punish people by flooding killing people in the Old Testament. Is that good, is that moral? I think MCK and MCK sect is not being straight thinking in this aspect.

  The example u gave, its when the authority, the boss, also believe in taking care of the people, and that works. But what if the authority doesn't believe in taking care of people, but abusing them?? Under Confucianism, how would one deal? If I totally buy into Confucianism, and obey a abusive boss, who only believe in exploit the employee and abusing them, then how? In Confucianism world view, it didn't say, screw the boss, just resign. Confucianism stress on being loyal. So I die die must stick to that abusive boss? U see the problem with confucianism? Its a flaw set of philosophy and teaching. So why advocate a flaw set of teaching as entry and foundation to Buddhism??

• Zenist69

  8 Jan 11, 19:26

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  If this is the case, then present what you have found out, and  present it in an open manner. You are making an accusation. He say/ she says is still an opinion, not fact.  

  We are dealing with one of it right now isn't it? I had stated my view on the Di Zi Gui issue.

  Those comments they are open out there and here. Where got close? Fact? They had shown their arguement, criticism. Why they against MCK teachings, and MCK. What fact do u want??

• sinweiy

  8 Jan 11, 19:28

  think Dawnfirstlight mentioned that there are people who is out to slander MCK using parts of the overall understanding to achieve their motive of bashing.

   

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 19:38

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  We are dealing with one of it right now isn't it? I had stated my view on the Di Zi Gui issue.

  Those comments they are open out there and here. Where got close? Fact? They had shown their arguement, criticism. Why they against MCK teachings, and MCK. What fact do u want??

  They presented their facts and views and hence you are are convinced. You have only your views  and I am not convinced. You may wrong, you may be right, again only your views. You brought in  this accusation here, you'll also have present your facts, and get it right too.    

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 19:42

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Different religion has got different morality. Caste system is moral for the Hindu. But is it moral from Buddhism point of view? Killing people of different faith is okay, said the Koran. Its moral. Its good conduct. But is it moral and good conduct from Buddhism point of view? God punish people by flooding killing people in the Old Testament. Is that good, is that moral? I think MCK and MCK sect is not being straight thinking in this aspect.

  The example u gave, its when the authority, the boss, also believe in taking care of the people, and that works. But what if the authority doesn't believe in taking care of people, but abusing them?? Under Confucianism, how would one deal? If I totally buy into Confucianism, and obey a abusive boss, who only believe in exploit the employee and abusing them, then how? In Confucianism world view, it didn't say, screw the boss, just resign. Confucianism stress on being loyal. So I die die must stick to that abusive boss? U see the problem with confucianism? Its a flaw set of philosophy and teaching. So why advocate a flaw set of teaching as entry and foundation to Buddhism??

  Confucius’ Five Virtues

   

  “To be able under all circumstances to practice five things constitutes perfect virtue; these five things are gravity, generosity of soul, sincerity, earnestness and kindness.”

   

  Confucius taught five virtues a gentleman should practice every day to live a healthy, harmonious life:

   

              Ren is the virtue of benevolence, charity, and humanity;

   

   

   

     Yi, of honesty and uprightness;

   

  Yì may be broken down into zhong, , doing one's best, conscientiousness, loyalty; and

  shù, , reciprocity, altruism, consideration for others, and Confucius’ early version of the Golden Rule, “what you don't want yourself, don't do to others."

   

  Zhi, knowledge;

   

  Xin, the virtue of faithfulness and integrity; and,

   

     Li, correct behavior, or propriety, good manners, politeness, ceremony, worship.

   

  
  

• Weychin

  8 Jan 11, 19:48

  If you have followed a person with such virtues, you would not have a problem.

  There are recent mass conversions of the Dalit or the untouchables to Buddhism and Christianity. As situations allows, they did not resign themselves to fatalism.

   Also if a religion claims to be a religion of peace now, we should allow it every opportunity to practise what it preaches. 

  We cannot stop people already being killed in name of religion or people subjected to unequal suffering in the past, but keep can try to prevent it from happening with situation allowing.

• sinweiy

  8 Jan 11, 20:28

  as we can see, some Buddhists here are not even the followers of MCK, yet the view on what's Right and what's wrong stands the same.

  think there are proper channel or procedure if one really think a Buddhist is wrong. perhaps one can approach the Buddhist authority or something, see if they approve of one's view.  or talk to the person personally in private. but i don't think it's right to put up a bashing website with vulgarity and sarcasm like that of the messager. what happen to our own Buddhist's foundation of 10 wholesome deeds å��善业 of avoiding slandering, harsh language, frivolous speech?

  The Ten Wholesome Ways of Actions Sutra �善业�� (Foundation of Buddhism)

  http://www4.bayarea.net/~mtlee/10.txt

  Speaking about wholesome dharmas, the bodies of men and devas, the Illumination of the Shravakas, the Illumination of the Pratyekas, and the Highest Illumination,
  they are all accomplished depending on these dharmas which are to be considered as fundamental.  Therefore they are called wholesome dharmas.  These dharmas are the ten wholesome ways of actions.  What are these ten?  They are
  the ability to give up forever killing, stealing, wrong conduct, lying, slandering, harsh language, frivolous speech, lust, hate, and wrong views.

  hmm..did the messager himself practice what the Foundation of Buddhism him/herself? i wouldn't listen to such a hypocritical person preaching "good" stuff? his/her own conduct no good, u think what come out can be good? somemore want us to be like him/her? something not rational de.

  that say not until u reached the state of an Arhat, don't even trust ur own view. Buddha did mentioned of view that can be upside-down. what's right, they think wrong, what's wrong, they think is right.

   

   

• sinweiy

  8 Jan 11, 21:31

  i shared a story in the past regarding this whole, almost exactly similar issue. think even now, people still have the issue and disbelieve, due to the level of understanding.

  the story is about the origin of the nodding rock 点头石’.

  During the time when the Mahaparinarvana sutra was only been translated first half of the potion, Ven Zhu Dao Sheng, presented a Buddhist saying that not only does sentient beings have Buddha nature, plants and minerals also have such nature. Ven Zhu Dao Sheng understanding is actually in the advance state. This is his idea of Oneness. All is One and One is all. However all the buddhists of the world said he is Waidao(Externatism), like here. As long as they are not said by Buddha or just leave a word away from sutra, they are all "Waidao" and that one's saying is mara saying. really just relying on words to see the meaning, Buddha of the three period of time also felt grievance.

  Zhu Dao Sheng felt unjustify and no way to vent his grievance. so he went to a mountain site in Su Zhou province, and start presenting to a rock. After the presentation, he asked the rock if he's right. Suddenly the rock nodded. Zhu Dao Sheng is right.

  if one have a chance, one can go to Su Zhou province to see the nodding rock. this story is for us to show respect not just to sentient beings but also to non sentient beings.

   

  （六）尊�

   

  è¦�å�šåˆ°å°Šé‡�别人，法å�Žç»�里有ä½�常ä¸�è½»è�©è�¨ï¼Œè§�了狗他都磕头，并且对狗说：你也有佛性，将æ�¥ä¹Ÿä¼šæˆ�佛。什么å�«å�šä½›æ€§ï¼Ÿä½›æ€§å°±æ˜¯è§‰æ€§ï¼Œè§‰æ€§å°±æ˜¯ç”Ÿå‘½çš„基本属性。人如果没有知觉就ä¸�å�«ä¼—生，而å�«ä¼—死。我们是有知觉，佛跟我们ä¸�一样，佛是纯知觉——除了知觉，什么都没有。纯知觉是ä¸�是ä¸�起作用了？ä¸�ï¼�现在我们说è¯�ã€�å�¬è¯�都是纯知觉，å�‡å¦‚ä¸�是这样，那我就是大妄语。我们说第一å�¥è¯�的时候没有准备第二å�¥ï¼Œå½“å¼€å�£çš„时候并没有念头。平常就练习尊é‡�别人，ä¸�管是大人å°�å­©ã€�ä¸�管是动物æ¤�物都è¦�å°Šé‡�。生命ä¸�å�ªæ˜¯äººæˆ–动物ã€�æ¤�物，矿物也都有生命，æ¤�物是准动的生命，矿物是ä¸�动的生命。整个大宇宙用佛ç»�的术语æ�¥è®²å�«å�šå¤§åœ†è§‰æµ·ï¼Œç”¨çŽ°ä»£çš„语言就是生命之海。生命的海洋里没有一样ä¸�是生命。

   

  在竺é�“生那个时代，大涅槃ç»�å�ªæœ‰ä¸Šå�Šéƒ¨ï¼Œä¸‹å�Šéƒ¨è¿˜æ²¡æœ‰ç¿»è¯‘出æ�¥ï¼Œä»–当时å�‘表æ„�è§�说，ä¸�但众生皆有佛性，器世间的一切（æ¤�物ã€�矿物）也都有佛性。竺é�“生这个人的æ€�想是超越的，他主张一元论，说佛性是一切，一切都是佛性；当时佛教中的人说他是外é�“，凡ä¸�是佛说的都是外é�“。这真是‘ä¾�文解义，三世佛冤’，你若按照文字æ�¥è§£é‡Šä½›çš„æ„�æ€�，过去ã€�现在的佛都会喊冤枉，为什么？因为他ä¸�是那个æ„�æ€�ï¼�å�ˆè¯´‘离ç»�一å�¥ï¼Œå�³å�Œé­”说’，你说的跟ç»�上ä¸�一样，你就是魔啊ï¼�

   

  竺é�“生一肚å­�委屈没地方宣泄，就跑到è‹�州虎丘山对著一å�—石头å�‘表演讲；讲完了还问石头：我讲的对ä¸�对？那å�—石头点了头，这是点头石的由æ�¥ï¼Œå�„ä½�有机会去è‹�州观光时就å�¯ä»¥åŽ»çœ‹çœ‹è¿™å�—‘点头石’。这个故事说明蠢动å�«ç�µéƒ½å±žäºŽæˆ‘们尊é‡�的范围。

  http://www.shijian.org/wenku/books2/1079.htm

  ps: MCK also have this idea simlar to Zhu Dao Sheng, i can understand, but i don't dare to bring this up. let the Dharma protectors, Buddha bodhisattvas be the judge.

  /\

• Fcukpap

  9 Jan 11, 00:13

  they say that feng shui originates from vatsu....

  watever wai dao....as long as its zheng dao....why close ourselves to greater learning and understanding?

  é�“é�“é�“  é�žå¸¸é�“

   

   

• Amitayus48

  9 Jan 11, 00:17

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  I dun noe much about Tibetan Buddhism. But I didn't see using Di Zi Gui as basic and entry to Buddhism as an orthodox way in Chinese Buddhism.

  No, I wont treat Christian as a heretic. I think they are just poor thing and lost thats all. But if I am gonna introduce Buddhism to those who's interested, or got karmic force （缘） with me, I will not tell them to go read Di Zi Gui for start.

  Aren't you student of Buddhas or your teacher? Is Di Zi Gui a literature on being a good student and a good teacher? In fact, MCK did not demand that you tell other to go read Di Zi Gui, but he is sharing his enlightenment（凈空）of being a good student and teacher, and hope that you would benefit from Di Zi Gui of being a good kind hearted student, teacher, leader, boss, silbings, filial piety etc. It seemed that you are trying to impose upon others that MCK is sort of a dogmatic emporer or ruler.

  Why not let go of this quagmire understanding and read another perspective from an enlightened Chan master  and Buddha Sakyamuni himself on the founders of Confucius and Daoism -

  《万善�归集》-永明延寿禅师开示：��孔�是何圣？如何看待儒�？

  《起世界�》云：
  佛言：我é�£äºŒåœ£ï¼Œå¾€éœ‡æ—¦è¡ŒåŒ–。一者，è€�å­�，是迦å�¶è�©è�¨ã€‚二者，孔å­�，是儒童è�©è�¨ã€‚(having intent of Di Zi Gui as waidao is not very fair to è€�å­�å­”å­� who were 迦å�¶è�©è�¨ and å„’ç«¥è�©è�¨  )

  明知自��今，但有利益于人间者，皆是密化��，惟大士之所明，�常情之所测。�使寡闻浅识，起谤如烟。并是�了本宗，妄生愚执。

  问：佛行无上。众哲所尊。儒�二教。既尽钦风。云何�代之中。而有�谤�信者何。

  答：儒�先宗皆是��，示劣扬化，�赞佛乘。

  《��》云：�师�佛，觉一切民也。
  《西��》云：�师化游天竺，善入泥洹。
  《符�》云：��之师，�释迦文。
  《列�》云：
  商太宰嚭问孔�曰：夫�圣人欤？
  孔�对曰：丘�识强记，�圣人也。
  �问：三王圣人欤？
  对曰：三王善用智勇，�圣人也。
  �问：五�圣人欤？
  对曰：五�善用�义，亦�丘所知。
  �问：三皇圣人欤？
  对曰：三皇善任因时，亦�丘所知。
  太宰嚭大骇曰：然则孰为圣人？
  夫�动容，有言曰：丘闻西方圣者焉，�治而�乱，�言而自信，�化而自行。��乎，民无能�焉。

  注：　　延寿大师(公元904�975年)，�末五代�国时僧人。净土宗六祖，法眼宗三祖。 传世著作，《宗镜录》一百��《万善�归集》三��《唯心诀》一��《神栖安养赋》一��《定慧相资歌》一��《警世》一�，而以《宗镜录》对于�世的影�为最大。

  Good night
  Namo Buddha Amitabha

• Dawnfirstlight

  9 Jan 11, 10:47

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  think Dawnfirstlight mentioned that there are people who is out to slander MCK using parts of the overall understanding to achieve their motive of bashing.

   

  Yes, you are correct. The person who wants to slander him 断章�义.

• 2009novice

  9 Jan 11, 17:08

  Er... actually what is the exact definition of wai dao...?

  Usually buddhist temples have variety of wholesome activities like taiji, classical music, etc etc

  A buddhist library i went have many -zi books, like meng zi, zhuang zi, etc

  3 Kingdoms also have (lol)

  so many "wai dao" thingy

  I think it shows the humble and flexible part of Buddhism, isn't it?

• Zenist69

  9 Jan 11, 19:48

  Originally posted by Amitayus48:

  Aren't you student of Buddhas or your teacher? Is Di Zi Gui a literature on being a good student and a good teacher? In fact, MCK did not demand that you tell other to go read Di Zi Gui, but he is sharing his enlightenment（凈空）of being a good student and teacher, and hope that you would benefit from Di Zi Gui of being a good kind hearted student, teacher, leader, boss, silbings, filial piety etc. It seemed that you are trying to impose upon others that MCK is sort of a dogmatic emporer or ruler.

  Why not let go of this quagmire understanding and read another perspective from an enlightened Chan master  and Buddha Sakyamuni himself on the founders of Confucius and Daoism -

  《万善�归集》-永明延寿禅师开示：��孔�是何圣？如何看待儒�？

  《起世界�》云：
  佛言：我é�£äºŒåœ£ï¼Œå¾€éœ‡æ—¦è¡ŒåŒ–。一者，è€�å­�，是迦å�¶è�©è�¨ã€‚二者，孔å­�，是儒童è�©è�¨ã€‚(having intent of Di Zi Gui as waidao is not very fair to è€�å­�å­”å­� who were 迦å�¶è�©è�¨ and å„’ç«¥è�©è�¨  )

  明知自��今，但有利益于人间者，皆是密化��，惟大士之所明，�常情之所测。�使寡闻浅识，起谤如烟。并是�了本宗，妄生愚执。

  问：佛行无上。众哲所尊。儒�二教。既尽钦风。云何�代之中。而有�谤�信者何。

  答：儒�先宗皆是��，示劣扬化，�赞佛乘。

  《��》云：�师�佛，觉一切民也。
  《西��》云：�师化游天竺，善入泥洹。
  《符�》云：��之师，�释迦文。
  《列�》云：
  商太宰嚭问孔�曰：夫�圣人欤？
  孔�对曰：丘�识强记，�圣人也。
  �问：三王圣人欤？
  对曰：三王善用智勇，�圣人也。
  �问：五�圣人欤？
  对曰：五�善用�义，亦�丘所知。
  �问：三皇圣人欤？
  对曰：三皇善任因时，亦�丘所知。
  太宰嚭大骇曰：然则孰为圣人？
  夫�动容，有言曰：丘闻西方圣者焉，�治而�乱，�言而自信，�化而自行。��乎，民无能�焉。

  注：　　延寿大师(公元904�975年)，�末五代�国时僧人。净土宗六祖，法眼宗三祖。 传世著作，《宗镜录》一百��《万善�归集》三��《唯心诀》一��《神栖安养赋》一��《定慧相资歌》一��《警世》一�，而以《宗镜录》对于�世的影�为最大。

  Good night
  Namo Buddha Amitabha

  "Confucianism stresses the need for mental and physical cultivation. Above all, it is concerned with a great political ideal. It is common, down to earth, takes human affairs seriously and pays honour to rationality. All these are principal elements in the culture of China. I agreed with their philosophies and even praised them, but they were unable to fill in the emptiness in my unsettled heart. Others thought that I had become more pragmatic, but the fact is that I experienced an increasing emptiness.

  Now that I reflect on it, I find that this experience was due to the fact that Confucianism gives little emphasis to religion. To the ordinary people, the practices of Confucianism seem common, and down to earth. The establishment of one’s virtue, merit, and teachings solely for this life cannot be constructed into an imposing and glorious blueprint for living. Such a plan is lacking in foresight. It cannot bring people into a state where their minds and hearts are at peace(i.e. a state in which they are unmoved by gain or loss, suffering or joy, life or death) and in this state stride forward along the path of glory." ---- from Selected Translation of Miao Yun by Venerable Yin Shun

  http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/miao_yun.pdf

• Zenist69

  9 Jan 11, 19:58

  Originally posted by 2009novice:

  Er... actually what is the exact definition of wai dao...?

  Usually buddhist temples have variety of wholesome activities like taiji, classical music, etc etc

  A buddhist library i went have many -zi books, like meng zi, zhuang zi, etc

  3 Kingdoms also have (lol)

  so many "wai dao" thingy

  I think it shows the humble and flexible part of Buddhism, isn't it?

  There's a difference. Those Buddhist temple have taiji, classical music course, but they didn't say, one gotta learn taiji and classical music before practice Buddhist meditation, or learning Buddhism. Nor the library advocate people to go read romance of three kingdom, Zhuang Zi as entry level material to Buddhism. In the case of MJK issue, he is proposing Di Zi Gui as ENTRY AND FOUNDATION TO BUDDHISM. That is a great difference.

   

• Zenist69

  9 Jan 11, 20:00

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  They presented their facts and views and hence you are are convinced. You have only your views  and I am not convinced. You may wrong, you may be right, again only your views. You brought in  this accusation here, you'll also have present your facts, and get it right too.    

  Did u read their view or not? Or do u need translation?